we'd inevitably begun calling it my "debriefing," and i sat as i'd done before, a microphone hung on my chest, reciting names and random facts onto tape. as i spoke, i watched the people who sat or stood leaning against the walls; every one of them was staring at me. my voice droned on, the muffled clatter of the electric typewriter accompanying it, and they watched me, knowing i was different from all of them now. staring back at them, so did i. rube was there in faded, very clean sharply pressed army pants, and shirt without insignia. he lay tilted back in a molded-plastic chair, hands clasped behind his head, looking at me. he grinned when our eyes met once, quirking a mouth corner and shaking his head in mock awe and wonder, his eyes filled with friendly aching envy. dr. danziger just stood there, his great hands hung on the lapels of his double-breasted brown suit; his eyes, blazing with fierce joy, never left me. colonel esterhazy, neat and cool in a gray suit, stood against a wall, a hand clasping a wrist, regarding me thoughtfully. the columbia and princeton history men were there, too; so was the u.s. senator, several others i'd met, and even three or four neatly dressed strangers. after i'd finished we waited in the cafeteria for forty minutes or so. i sat with rube, danziger, and colonel esterhazy, and had three, maybe even four, cups of coffee. every chair at the other tables was occupied, and people were sitting on the radiator cover against the far wall. i had to respond to a good many jokes from people pausing at our table, most of them being questions about whether i'd bought any manhattan real estate at bargain prices. oscar sat down with us for a minute. he said, "what one thing hit you the hardest?" and i tried to tell him about the man, the living actuality of the man, who had sat opposite us on the bus, and who might have remembered andrew jackson as president. oscar sat nodding, smiling a little; he knew what i meant. as soon as he'd left, rube leaned toward me and said, " 'us'? who else was there, si?" and i told him there were one or two other passengers on my side of the bus. the tall bald man of the day before came hurrying in, the room going silent as he stopped at our table. grinning, he said that everything they'd been able to investigate so far had checked out okay. he felt certain now that the rest would, too, and the room broke into an excited gabble. at one fifteen the board assembled, i sat at an end of the long conference-room table, and for the fourth time today i began describing what had happened. every chair at the table was filled, and along one side there was a second row of folding chairs, all occupied. as far as i could tell,looking around the table as i talked, everyone i'd met here before was here again today plus at least a dozen others i didn't know. one of them, danziger told me later, was a personal representative of the president. again i spoke in the singular, saying nothing about kate. i'd have to tell danziger what she'd done but i wanted to do that when we were alone. i described every move i'd made, every sight i'd seen and sound i'd heard, the room silent. something like two dozen men sat around that table or on the folding chairs and no one coughed or glanced away from me. it may be that some of them lighted cigarettes during the twenty minutes i spoke, or sat back in their chairs, shifted position, crossed their legs; i expect they did. but my impression was of motionless silence, complete except for my voice, and of a focused concentration on me so absolute i felt i was talking with a kind of invisible searchlight bathing me in the glare of their attention. i finished, then sat answering questions for half an hour more. mostly, whatever the specifics, it was the same unanswerable question: what was it like? what was it really like? and now they were restless. they stirred, frowned, whispered, lighted cigarettes. because no matter how i tried or how complete the detail, i couldn't give them the essence of what had happened to me; the mystery remained. one set of questions, the senator's, had a tone different from the others. for reasons i don't understand he was antagonistic. it was as though he suspected or thought it was a possibility at least that i might be hoaxing them. i suppose it wasn't an unreasonable suspicion under the circumstances, though no one else showed it. but the senator, for example, didn't remember his grandfather's ever mentioning the kind of bus i'd described. he sat looking at me shrewdly then, as though he'd caught me. all i could do, of course, was shrug politely and reply that nevertheless that's what i'd seen. i suspect he was simply following the politician's sleazy instinct to protect himself in case something later went wrong. presently esterhazy cut in on him smoothly with some minor question, and then forgot to give him the floor back. he simply thanked me, and asked if i'd mind keeping myself available here in the building till the meeting ended. when i said yes, of course, he thanked me again, and i understood that i was dismissed, and left. there was actually a little applause as i walked out, and my face flushed. i sat forever in rube's office then, turning the pages of old copies of life, discovering again, as in a doctor's waiting room, that it's very hard to tell, looking through back issues of life, whether or not you've seen them before. i looked through a playboy, a copy of the u.s. infantry journal, and i walked out once and down the corridor to the cafeteria for a coke i didn't want. rube's girl came in twice, wanting to know, of course, what it had been like, really like, and once again i did my damnedest to find the words that would convey it. it was after four o'clock when she came in the third time. she'd just gotten the call: could i come back to the conference room, please? i've never really walked into a jury room after they've been locked up for hours, but i think this must have been like it in appearance and atmosphere. the room was air-conditioned so it wasn't full of smoke, but the ashtrays overflowed and the air smelled of cigarettes. and ties werepulled down now, coats were off, note pads were doodle-filled, crumpled paper balls lay on the table, and i noticed a pencil snapped in half; faces were set, some actually sullen. esterhazy stood up as i came in, smiling affably, looking unruffled. his suit coat was still on, his tie and shirt neat as ever. he gestured me to the chair i'd had before, waited till i'd sat down, then he sat down too, resting his forearms on the tabletop, his hands loosely clasped, very relaxed. he said, "i'm sorry to have kept you waiting like this; you must be quite tired, physically and mentally." he sounded as though he meant it, and i murmured a polite response. i realized that i'd expected it would be danziger who'd speak, and i glanced down the table at him. one big hand lay on the tabletop at the edge; his chair was pushed back from the table as though—the thought popped into my mind—he were disassociating himself from the meeting. did he look angry? no, i decided; actually his face was expressionless. there was no way to know what he was feeling or thinking; he might only be tired. esterhazy was talking. "we have had to hear, wanted to hear, every shade of opinion in reaching a decision as important as the one"—he looked slowly around the table—"that we are now agreed upon." then he smiled and sat looking at me for a moment or so, and i had the sudden feeling that he was interested in me as a person as well as just someone who'd done what i had. "your first 'visit,' if that's the term, couldn't have been more cautiously made. no one so much as glimpsed or heard you, and no least trace of your brief presence was left behind. there was no interference whatever in even the smallest events of the past, and you had no effect upon it. but your second visit— deliberately, by design—was more bold. again you made no interference with events, except"—he unclasped his hands to raise his forefinger, a west point lecturer requiring attention—"that your very presence event. a tiny one, but this time people saw you, and spoke to you, momentarilyatleas(was) t.w(an) hat trains of thought might possibly have resulted? influencing events that followed in what ways, large or small? it was a danger and a profound one, but"—soundlessly striking the table with his fist, he emphasized each slow word—"if is a risk already over and past. we accepted the risk, the full report is now in, and once again there is no least evidence that your presence affected subsequent events in even the slightest way." he sat silent for a moment, then again smiled, suddenly and very pleasantly, adding, "and i'm not a bit surprised. this confirms, most of us feel—and as all of us, i'm certain, will come to feel— a theory we've been calling 'twig-in-the-river.' would you like to hear it?" i nodded. "well, time is often compared to a river, a stream, as you know. what happens at any one point in the stream depends at least partly on what happened upstream earlier. but a tremendous number of events occur every day and every moment; billions of events, some of them enormous. so if time is a river, it's infinitely bigger than even a mississippi at full raging flood. while you"—he smiled at me—"are the very tiniest of twigs dropped into that torrent. it's possible, or would seem so, that even the smallest of twigs might have an effect; might lodge, for example, and eventually cause a barrier that could affect the entire course of even that great stream. the possibility, the danger, of important change seems to exist. but does it really? what are the chances? there is virtually a one-hundred-percent probability that a twig tossed into that enormous and incredibly powerful current, into the inconceivable momentum of that vast mississippi of events, will not and cannot affect it one goddam bit!"for just an instant his face had pinkened; then it was white and almost pale again, and he sat back in his chair, an arm lying relaxed on the tabletop, and said quietly, "that is the theory, and that is the fact." the room was silent then, of course, for as long as six or seven seconds; if there'd been a clock we'd have heard it tick. then without moving his hand lying on the table edge and without sitting forward, danziger said gently, "that is the theory. and i agree with it. as i should, since it's largely mine. but is it a fact?" he nodded slightly. "i think so, i suspect so." he turned his head slowly, looking all around the table. "but what if we're wrong?" i was surprised. esterhazy murmured, "yes," and nodded gravely in agreement. "it's an enormous possibility. a real one and a terrible one. and yet"—he moved one shoulder in a slow reluctant shrug—"unless we are simply to abandon the project, abandon it actually because it has succeeded—" "no, of course not," dr. danziger said just a little brusquely. "and no one argues for that, least of all me. i say—" "i know," esterhazy said, voice regretful, and he nodded in agreement again. "go slow," he said, finishing danziger's sentence. "proceed, but with infinite caution. over a period of weeks, months, even years, if that's necessary to be absolutely sure. well, i might very well think so, too... if that were an option open to us. but as the senator knows, as i and a good many of us know, and as perhaps you, dr. danziger, haven't ever had the opportunity to know—it is simply not the way government works." he gestured to indicate the entire building around us. "this has cost money, that's the trouble. so that now, simply because it has succeeded, it must justify its cost with practical results. mr. morley is to go back; we're all agreed on that. it's unthinkable that he should not. but ... he is to continue at a pace faster and bolder than we might all wish. pure research, left to itself, would proceed with infinite patience. but this is money. federally appropriated. secretly spent. without even the consent of congress. now it damn well better provide some provably practical results." he looked first at me; then, head slowly turning, he looked around the entire table as he continued. "but i want to say to mr. morley and to everyone else but dr. danziger, who has always understood this, that while decisions vitally affecting this project cannot be his alone, which is probably unfortunate, this is still as it always has been very much his project. he runs it, he is the boss, only the board can overrule him, will seldom do so, and when rarely it does, it will happen after only the most intense and serious consideration of his views. so that now, mr. morley"—he smiled at me—"i'll turn you back to him." he stood up, stretching his shoulders as he rose, and then everyone slowly got up, general conversation beginning, and the meeting was over. in danziger's office i spoke first. he, rube, and i walked along through the corridors together after finally breaking away from the conference room, talking about nothing of importance till we reached danziger's office. there danziger sat down behind his desk, got out half a cigar from his top drawer and looked at it, obviously thinking about lighting it. but instead, once more, he put itinto his mouth unlighted. i sat waiting till he'd done this; then i sat forward in my chair, leaning across the desk edge toward him. rube sat facing me, off to danziger's left and slightly behind him, chair tilted back against the wall. i said, "dr. danziger, i don't even know who colonel ester-hazy is. for all i know to the contrary, he's a colonel in the ecuadorian reserves." rube smiled; he liked that. "whoever he is, i didn't pledge allegiance to him and whatever he may or may not stand for. you and rube recruited me, i'm working for you, and i'll do what you say." danziger was grinning broadly by the time i was through, very pleased. he said, "thank you, si. a very great deal." he sat comfortably back in his swivel chair, pulled out a bottom desk drawer, and put his foot on it. "you know, until we actually had a success, yours, things went routinely. wonderfully smoothly, in fact." he smiled. "my reports were accepted without comment, the board considered whatever problems i brought up, usually having to do with a little more money. which they generally produced, though not always as much as i asked. we often met with barely a quorum, adjourning in half an hour or so. i doubt that most of the board had any real faith in the project at all; most of them were assigned to it." he nodded several times as he continued. "so maybe i did get to thinking or at least feeling that this was my project solely and entirely." dr. danziger took his half cigar from his mouth, studied it, then replaced it, and sat forward, clasping his hands on the desk top. "but of course esterhazy is right. this isn't just our toy; we've got to show some practicality. and i know it. i'd prefer to go very very slowly. but, really, i'm as convinced as the others that we are most probably proceeding quite safely. 'probably,' i say: i'd prefer taking no risk whatsoever if i had my druthers. "but i agree with the decision: what i want you to do is what we all want you to do; there's no conflict. and what we want you to do reminds me in a way of our first space capsule." again he sat back. "the first tiny one weighing—what? a few pounds. everyone wanted space on it, remember? the biologists wanted a few mice aboard to see the effects of cosmic radiation. the botanists had some seeds; the geographers, weathermen and military wanted space for a camera; the broadcasters, the entire communications industry, and lord knows who and what-all had then-requests and even demands. so they worked up a package, or tried to, that would give them all a little something, at least in token. "it's the same with us, si. that's why the board decided to let you have a look at your man with the envelope. in some sort of way he is apparently connected to a fragment of history, to a minor adviser of cleveland's. what is his connection, we naturally wonder. well, our historians want to know whether the project can really help them: is it true or not that we can actually increase historical knowledge in a way never before open to us? the sociologists have similar questions, the psychologists have theirs, and of course the physicists, of whom i'm one, have a million of them. your man, somehow connected with a little footnote to history, makes an acceptable first tiny package. if you can cautiously study and watch him, and if you should get results that seem to justify it, we can carefully move on to larger more ambitious matters about which we need additional knowledge. "so this is what we want, si. still observing, still very cautiously—as much as possible the mouse in the corner, the fly on the wall—we want you to observe him. learn what you can; thepurpose being to discover what's possible in this line. it increases, certainly, your interference with old events, but"—he hesitated, then shrugged—"minimize that all you can. well? you know where he lives: can you return and find a way to do that for us?" i started to nod, but before i could reply rube said quietly, voice perfectly friendly but without smiling, "alone. this time alone. this time friend kate is to stay where she damn well belongs." my mouth opened but i didn't have any words ready. i just sat there with my mouth open for a moment, and now rube did smile a little. he said, "don't bother to answer; i'm fairly sure i can guess how it was, and you can't really be blamed, i suppose. and apparently no harm was done. but we've got enough to worry about without adding sightseers." i nodded. "all right. i'd have told dr. danziger, and you can believe that. but how did you know?" "we know. there's a lot to this project beside you, a lot of drudgery and detail. you've got the glamour part, and we don't bother you with the nuts and bolts. but we're watching out for the project in every way we can, and nothing else and nobody else matters but that. okay?" it was a warning and maybe a threat, and i accepted it because it was deserved. "okay." he grinned then, the really great smile that had made me like rube from the start. then he tipped his chair forward, the front legs striking the vinyl tile hard, and stood up. "then it's back to the dakota. come on, you lucky bastard, i'll drive you."