"mr. bindris," said hari seldon, reaching out his hand to shake the other's. "i am so glad to be able to see you. it was good of you to agree to see me."

"why not?" said terep bindris jovially. "i know you well. or, rather, i know of you well."

"that's pleasant. i take it you've heard of psychohistory, then."

"oh yes, what intelligent person hasn't? not that i understand anything about it, of course. and who is this young lady you have with you?"

"my granddaughter, wanda."

"a very pretty young woman." he beamed. "somehow i feel i'd be putty in her hands."

wanda said, "i think you exaggerate, sir."

"no, really. now, please, sit down and tell me what it is i can do for you." he gestured expansively with his arm, indicating that they be seated on two overstuffed, richly brocaded chairs in front of the desk at which he sat. the chairs, like the ornate desk, the imposing carved doors which had slid back noiselessly at their arrival signal, and the gleaming obsidian floor of bindris's vast office, were of the finest quality. and, although his surroundings were impressive-and imposing-bindris himself was not. the slight cordial man would not be taken, at first glance, for one of trantor's leading financial powerbrokers.

"we're here, sir, at the emperor's suggestion."

"the emperor?"

"yes, he could not help us, but he thought a man like you might be able to do so. the question, of course, is credits."

bindris's face fell. "credits?" he said. "i don't understand."

"well," said seldon, "for nearly forty years, psychohistory has been supported by the government. however, times change and the empire is no longer what it was."

"yes, i know that."'

"the emperor lacks the credits to support us or, even if he did have the credits, he couldn't get the request for funding past the legislature. he recommends, therefore, that i see businesspeople who, in the first place, still have credits and, in the second place, can simply write out a credit voucher."

there was a longish pause and bindris finally said, "the emperor, i'm afraid, knows nothing about business. -how many credits do you want?"

"mr. bindris, we're talking about an enormous task. i'm going to need several million."

"several million!"

"yes, sir."

bindris frowned. "are we talking about a loan here? when do you expect to be able to pay it back?"

"well, mr. bindris, i can't honestly say i ever expect to be able to pay it back. i'm looking for a gift."

"even if i wanted to give you the credits-and let me tell you, for some strange reason i very much want to do so-i couldn't. the emperor may have his legislature, but i have my board members. i can't make a gift of that sort without the board's permission and they'll never grant it."

"why not? your firm is enormously wealthy. a few million would mean nothing to you."

"that sounds good," said bindris, "but i'm afraid that the firm is in a state of decline right now. not sufficiently to bring us into serious trouble, but enough to make us unhappy. if the empire is in a state of decay, different individual parts of it are decaying, too. we are in no position to land out a few million. -i'm truly sorry."

seldon sat there silently and bindris seemed unhappy. he shook his head at last and said, "look, professor seldon, i would really like to help you out, particularly for the sake of the young lady you have with you. it just can't be done. -however, we're not the only firm in trantor. try others, professor. you may have better luck elsewhere."

"well," said seldon, raising himself to his feet with an effort, "we shall try."